Everywhere But Home: The search for belonging after reaching financial freedom at 32

He retired at 32 and now lives the dream life. But is it enough? [The Other Side of Enough: Interview #1]

Nov 03, 2024

Series: The Other Side of Enough | Interview: #1 | Reading Time: 8 mins
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This is part of the new interview series, The Other Side of Enough, exploring what life is like when you have enough.

Get ready to feel jealous, because Naz Avo is living the life that many only dream about.

When I asked to schedule time for his interview, he was primarily concerned that it didn’t interfere with the tide: he wanted to go surfing.

Naz’s life does sound like a dream.

He wakes up to a slow morning, a cup of coffee, maybe a book or some writing. When the tide delivers, he surfs. He’s training for his blue belt in jiu-jitsu and preparing for a marathon. He’s single, but prioritizes one meal a day with a friend. He frequently takes naps.

His childhood is unusual as well. Born in Ukraine (an important part of the story that will come up again later). High-schooled in Texas. College in Poland. He’s lived all over the world since then, taking the call with me from Thailand, his current residence.

He’s a self-processed “frugal nomad,” who paired a successful programming career with a simple life abroad. This combination gave him the ability to retire by the age of 32. Yes, 32.

What makes Naz so interesting is how intentional he is about curating his life. He’s young, but wise, having thoughtfully constructed a life around what he values. I’m guessing that of all the people I’ve interviewed, Naz has the least money, but may be the happiest.

But Naz’s story isn’t all perfect. There’s a twist, a cruel irony to his freedom that makes him compelling. And why I wanted to start with him as the first interview in the The Other Side of Enough series.

Minimum viable independence

Naz hit financial independence at an extremely early age. How did he do it?

No, there was no financial windfall or extreme luck.

“10 years of frugal saving, counting, having a spreadsheet, and having this number in mind.”

He accomplished this seemingly impossible feat by earning a good income, making tradeoffs, but maybe most importantly by having confidence in his own resourcefulness and adaptability.

This is not a situation where someone planned for every possible future expense, mitigated every risk, and only after extreme certainty, let go. His version of "enough" is much lower than it is for the rest of us. And for that, he achieved his freedom far earlier.

“I don't think people are wired to have enough. And it's about figuring out: where's your comfort zone? Not the bare minimum. But where you would be a full human?
And not contribute all of your time, all of your life, to just making money.”

He figured out something that many digital nomads call “geoarbitrage,” taking advantage of the low cost of living when you broaden your available place of residence to the entire globe:

“Something I thought when I started this nomadic adventure was this number… it's $1M maybe in the US. But it could be $200,000 somewhere, like in Thailand.
I felt a mental relief after purchasing my first property and owning it without a mortgage. [I figured] I can live in one of my rooms. I can rent the other one. And I'll have enough for my buckwheat porridge in the morning, and some food during the day. And I'll be fine. My baseline stress and my life would be okay.”

Live the perfect day, forever

Naz’s dream days didn’t happen by accident. He’s been thinking about designing the perfect day for awhile, using a practice he learned in therapy:

“Can you actually live your perfect day forever? Everyone could shoot for their ideal day, in their ideal location, and then work backwards, from that goal.”

The exercise asks you to visualize your perfect day - not just the broad brushes, but the details:

“Imagine your perfect day. You wake up. Where do you wake up? Who do you wake up next to? And then what are the settings? Are you next to the ocean, next to the forest, next to the mountain, or in the city? What does your room look like?
What do you feel? Then what do you do first?
I kept imagining those things evolved a little bit, but they were still usually around the same few things…
I would not be in a hurry to go anywhere. I would contemplate the day: what do I want to do today to make it a full day?”

Health as the foundation

While he has an open calendar, Naz does have one category that he schedules on an ongoing basis: his health.

“I keep these health goals on top. That's what I'm aiming for.
So with workouts and things that are really fixed, I have slots booked through the week (e.g. exercise, jiu-jitsu, running, yoga).
So I tried to fill out my mornings with mostly fitness stuff to keep my health going.”

While he may be frugal, life abroad allows him to live luxuriously:

“Then there's usually some sort of recovery, like massages, or spas, or ice baths. That kind of stuff.
A good masseuse is about ฿250 or ฿300 (Thai baht) per hour, which is, it's like $8 or $9 USD.”

Work ambition at his own pace

People who retire early didn’t get there by being intellectually inactive.

They typically work hard in demanding fields that challenge their brain. Naz is no different.

So losing the intellectual stimulation altogether can be a recipe for boredom and meaninglessness. He figured that out after a short hiatus where he went cold-turkey on ‘work’ for a few months:

“[My transition away from work] was ‘confusing’ if I had to describe it in one word.
I didn't open my laptop for a couple of months straight.
I wanted to contribute. But still, I knew I didn't wanna contribute all of the time.
I was feeling, huh… there's nothing I need to do. I [needed a] bigger project.
Okay, I'll do more fitness. But it still didn't feel as big of a project as it was during the work-life.”

Naz figured this out early on, realizing he needed projects to stretch himself (and maybe gave him an extra slush fund for his travels). But he’s kept these projects at the right level of ambition, for him:

“I need to create something or I need to express myself.
I try to have up to 3-4 hours a day of focusing and putting my brain to work, not my muscles to work.
I have this little project where it's not super, highly ambitious. But it's something where I'm trying to develop my skills to see how I can build a project from scratch.
So I'm doing development. I'm doing the marketing myself. I'm doing all the things like a little startup founder. But on my own terms.
So it's just like going at my own pace.
It's not building a rocket, taking people to Mars. That would definitely take over my life.
And I'm back to work again. It's more like I have enough. I have enough to fulfill this life… I can live this life forever.”

People amplify purpose

One thoughtful approach Naz has figured out is merging his interests with a community. He has found ways to…

“create new relationships, new connections that bring fulfillment into [my projects].”

Rather than have isolated projects that he works on alone, he brings other people in, helping them along the way as well.

“That's something I keep doing. Just connecting with people and creating better connections. It feels fulfilling and having this time for human connection, that’s one of my favorite things about this [experience].
So something I thought of was organizing people and creating communities. So I organized a running club and an Indie Hackers meet-up.
[For Indie Hackers,] one day a week, we gather together and everyone works on their own projects. It creates a community of people who are builders who are doing stuff online.
The running club has been similar. Initially, it was 7 AM Monday mornings, for people who have a goal to achieve something fitness-wise. Now, there's way more people. There's about 123 people in the group. I don't even know everyone anymore.”

In search of a permanent home

“I haven't had this permanent place to just call home.”

While Naz initially wanted to achieve financial independence, he was also searching for “movement independence.” He’s achieved that, clearly.

But ever since moving from Ukraine to Texas as a child, he’s not had a permanent place to ever call home. That might be changing now, as he ages and sees the value of some permanency:

“I am still slightly nomadic. I'm fluid with my location. But I think I will be settling down for good.
I've been seeing the same people for almost 4 or 5 months now, and that's quite a new feeling for me!
The conversations are getting deeper and relationships are forming. And, it's like, ‘Oh, this is yeah, something I would like more of in my life.’”

Naz, however, was clearly grappling with this shift in identity. Having built his life around being a nomad, he understood that now, his life required something different.

“It never… our dreams never align with reality. It's never there.
Which I'm finding out now. Like okay, ‘you gotta commit to something to create your dream.’
I believe I have enough right now and my life is well balanced. It's good. I'm enjoying what I have here. And it's not missing.
It's more like there's these other projects that I would like to explore. For example, having a family.
I'm dynamic. I'm flexible with that, and it won't be like, ‘Oh, I'm losing my freedom’ or something. No, it will be a different project. A different chapter in life which I would like to experience.”

Global freedom, unable to go home

When I asked him what’s missing in his life, he shared a story about his recent glimpse with death - he was hospitalized after a sea snake bite, while surfing, that he feared was poisonous.

“These extreme moments… they bring up a lot of extreme feelings.
You know, you're in a taxi. Your fingers are bleeding. And there was this creature who bit you in the ocean. Who the hell knows what's next?
It was like, ‘fuck, I didn't really say a proper goodbye.’ I recorded some messages and sent them to a friend, and said, ‘hey, just in case… send this to my mom.’”

You could see the twinge of sadness in Naz as this experience made him reflect about missing out on time with his parents, who are stuck back in war-torn Ukraine.

And the cruel irony is that with all the movement independence in the world, the one place he can’t go is back home.

“I wish I could spend more time with my family.
I'm more constrained, especially with my dad (who was drafted into the Ukraine War).
Scares with death… they force us to think backwards a bit more. What should I have done better? Or more of? And that's what you should be spending your time on, I think. You have this gift. You got lucky. You are alive.
I need to make that happen, seeing my family, somehow. Something to focus on and think about for myself. For later. Yeah.
Even though I live on the other side of the world… it just became more real.
That would be missing, if I had to go now.”

Special thank you to Naz Avo for sharing the intimate details of his life.

To learn more about his story: Early Retirement Diary: First Six Months of Financial Freedom, Exploration, and Discoveries
If you are an AirBnb host, check out his app: SnappyReply

This interview was transcribed, then summarized and edited lightly for clarity, with the approval of the interviewee. Unlike other participants, Naz agreed to not be anonymous.

Bonus Questions

What are resources that have helped you in your transition?

How to Live, by Derek Sivers
The Pathless Path, by
Paul Millerd
Flow, by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

What has been your best purchase, since hitting enough?

IKEA pillow with cooling pads

What has been your worst purchase, since hitting enough?

Canceled flight to Europe chasing an unavailable girl

Before & After - on a scale of 1-10 (10 being best), how would you rate the following before and after enough:

Health: 7 → 10 (+30%)
Stress (10 is low stress): 3 → 9 (+60%)
Relationships: 6 → 9 (+30%)
Creativity: 8 → 9 (+10%)
Impact: 8 → 4 (-40%)
Meaning: 7 → 9 (+20%)
Work Hours/Week: 50 → 16 (-68%)